Finding hidden package groups using DNF

For some reason, the Fedora packagers are hiding a large number of package groups so that you can’t see them when you search using dnf group list. In case you don’t know, a package group is, as its name implies, a group of related packages that are combined to make a complete software unit such as LibreOffice. This makes handling large numbers of packages easier by enabling then to be installed and removed as a single unit.

But DNF in Fedora, and presumably also RHEL and other Red Hat-related distros such as Alma Linux, doesn’t display all of the defined groups. I uncovered this fact when I went looking for a couple groups that I knew existed. When I didn’t find them I started trying to figure out where they were. That’s when I discovered the – – hidden option for the dnf command.

This command lists all of the RPM package groups including the hidden ones.

# dnf group list --hidden
ID                           Name                                        Installed
networkmanager-submodules    Common NetworkManager Submodules                  yes
lxqt-media                   Multimedia support for LXQt                        no
lxqt-office                  LXQt Office                                        no
mail-server                  Mail Server                                        no
mate-applications            MATE Applications                                  no
mate-desktop                 MATE                                               no
milkymist                    Milkymist                                          no
mingw32                      MinGW cross-compiler                               no
multimedia                   Multimedia                                        yes
miraclewm-desktop            Miracle Window Manager Desktop                     no
mysql                        MariaDB (MySQL) Database                           no
lxqt-l10n                    Translations of LXQt                               no
network-server               Network Servers                                    no
neuron-modelling-simulators  Neuron Modelling Simulators                        no
news-server                  News Server                                        no
ocaml                        OCaml                                              no
office                       Office/Productivity                                no
perl                         Perl Development                                   no
perl-web                     Perl for Web                                       no
phosh-desktop                A phone/tablet UX environment                      no
php                          PHP                                                no
libreoffice                  LibreOffice                                       yes
kde-media                    KDE Multimedia support                             no
kde-mobile                   KDE Mobile                                         no
<SNIP>
dns-server                   DNS Name Server                                    no
dogtag                       Dogtag Certificate System                          no
domain-client                Domain Membership                                  no
admin-tools                  Administration Tools                              yes
education                    Educational Software                               no
electronic-lab               Electronic Lab                                     no
engineering-and-scientific   Engineering and Scientific                         no
enlightenment-desktop        Enlightenment                                      no
fedora-packager              Fedora Packager                                    no
firefox                      Firefox Web Browser                                no
fonts                        Fonts                                             yes
font-design                  Font design and packaging                          no
freeipa-server               FreeIPA Server                                     no

By my count, out of 165 total groups, when using the dnf group list command, only 54 are displayed. The question is, why are 111 groups hidden? Some are installed and some are not. I eventually stumbled across the reason for this.

Apparently the Fedora packagers have decided that these groups are already installed or are unlikely to be installed by the “average” user so they don’t need to be listed. The reason I read for this is that adding these to the list would “confuse people.” I think that’s just stupid. I was more confused by not being able to find what I needed than by having a long list which I can sort and select by using common command line tools.

Not only that — the list of hidden groups seems rather arbitrary as I can discern no reasonable pattern to the selections. And, as the lazy SysAdmin, this just adds more typing to the command I need to use. I mean, I guess I could set up an alias, but that shouldn’t be necessary.

So if you seem to be missing some RPM package groups from your listing, this is where they’re hiding. But now you know how to find them.